By John Estridge
EDITOR’S NOTE AND EDITORIAL COMMENT: This is the second of a multi-part transcription of the August 24 Brookville Town Council meeting’s pertinent parts relating to Golf Course Purchase, Zimmer Building Purchase and Frisbee Golf Course. I wanted to break this down into parts because it will be a very long piece, if I can even finish it. It takes a long, long time to go over and over a recording to do a transcription, especially with how fast and slurred Curtis Ward, BTC president, is when he begins talking about something that apparently excites him.
Lora Crockett, resident on Franklin Avenue, “Hi, my name is Lora Crockett, and I live on Franklin Avenue. And I really believe this is a very unwise decision for the town board. I think that things need to be looked at and taken apart, investigated, piece by piece. I also believe that we, as a town, have a lot of businesses, as that young man just said that have went under. I mean numbers businesses. And the ground (Progress Street) that is breaking apart behind George’s (Pharmacy). Our town needs to come first before we own a golf course.”
At this point, in the heat, Lora became sick. She said she has a bad heart, her blood pressure was up and her head was pounding. Wayne Monroe, sitting in the first row, got out of his chair and moved it up behind Lora, and she sat down. Gina Gillman, Brookville Clerk/Treasurer, went to get Lora a bottle of water and a wet paper towel. Brookville Police Chief Terry Mitchum asked if Lora needed EMS. She declined. Lora continued to try to talk about the golf course while all of this was going on.
Lora Crockett: “I have prayed about this situation. It’s a very unwise decision. You guys have a lot of … I debated coming here. Please pick this to death, because it is just not your life, it just not your guys’ philosophy, it’s ours. And we have a lot of investment. I love this town. I love this community. It has been so good to me. My father owned a farm on Duck Creek, and I’ve been here, not all my life, but most of it.”
Dusty Robinson, Brookville resident: “My only question from what I’ve been hearing the last couple of weeks is this is a business investment, right? And this is a tourist town built on people coming to this town to enjoy the things of Brookville. What percentage do we know of the people coming to town go to the lake, the rivers, everything that is in Brookville? What percentage goes to the golf course?”
Curtis Ward: “I’m not sure. I’m not aware of it.”
Dusty Robinson: “I think we should look into this deeper before we make any decisions. I don’t think this is a good decision. You are jumping in too deep. It’s time to pull out before it’s too late, before we ruin this town. That is my opinion. Thank you.”
He received loud applause.
Curtis Ward: “I appreciate it.”
Wes Ball: “Good evening. My name is Wes Ball. And I live on the golf course. I have two properties up on the golf course. I have nothing against the golf course. I read in the paper a week or so ago they have two fulltime and 17 part time employees. What’s your plan in keeping personnel? Do you have any idea how many you will have?”
Curtis Ward: “When we started the talks, the LLC had asked us to consider keeping anyone who would be willing to stay. Obviously, I would be in favor of that. I can’t speak for the rest of the board. But I believe there is value in consistency. So, if those employees want to up there at the golf course once we’re the lawful owners, I’d love to see them all stay. They know the golf course better than we know the golf course. Anyone who wants to stay, we’d love to have them. It’s going to take as many if not more employees than they currently have to run that golf course effectively once we take over up there and once and it’s acquired by us.”
Wes Ball: “I understand some of them have been up there a long time. Do you have any idea how many you will need up there?”
Curtis Ward: “Any of them that’s willing to stay, I would be willing to keep. Again, I’m not going to speak for the rest of the board. But I can’t imagine we would want to get rid of people who knows the ins and outs of that particular golf course whether it’s the groundskeeper, front office staff or the general manager who knows the new point-of-sale system all the way back to the clubhouse renovations. Again, they know more about that golf course than any of us can learn in three to four months. If anyone wants to stay, we are happy to have them there.”
Wes Ball: “I was kind of reaching to part of the people who work there; they’re just putting their time in. They’re not on staff.”
Curtis Ward: “There are members of the LLC who donate quite a bit of their time. They don’t draw any salary. That was never their intention to make any money out of it. They do not charge. It’s all donated out. There’s probably two or three of them who do that, not on a fulltime basis, but more of a high-level manager-oversight, similar to what role that Tim (Ripperger, town manager) will play, what the town board or Gina (Gillman) will play in terms of financing and personnel oversight. So, we would kind of equate that system they have there with what we would likely implement.”
Wes Ball: “Because I’ve been involved with a lot of companies, a lot of business. I’ve never seen one that went into something without knowing anything about it as far as moneywise.”
Complete and utter silence.
Wes Ball: “Are the employees up there going to have health insurance?”
Curtis Ward: “If they’re fulltime employees that are fulltime with the town, they will get the same benefits as fulltime (employees) with the town. If they are part-time seasonal, then they are treated like part-time employees. They wouldn’t get the health insurance. They follow our structural payroll and personnel.”
Then there was a back and forth among Wes, Curtis and Gina in determining how many hours is considered fulltime. It is 32 but Gina said it is according to the position.
Wes Ball: (Wes asked another question about insurance, concerning the number of new employees at the golf course eligible for health insurance.)
Curtis Ward: “There would be at least two for sure depending on the months that qualify at 32.”
Wes Ball: Said he has been involved in the golf course business and it is a tough business. There was no response “That’s all I’ve got to say.”
John Race, business owner in Brookville, Brookville native and currently lives on the hill: “I think what Wes is trying to say is have any of you ever owned a business, or a golf course business?
Curtis Ward: “We opened a pool recently.”
John Race: “Why is the pool closed now?”
Curtis and fellow board member Brooke Leffingwell talked about how the lifeguards and pool workers had to go back to school, and the pool was unable to stay open except on weekends.
EDITORIAL COMMENT: Curtis and Brooke have described the opening of the pool as chaotic. It is a pool, kind of one dimensional, which is much easier to run than a financially strapped, unkempt golf course. And the town has a history with a pool but not a history with a golf course.
John Race: “I think what Wes was trying to say is and everybody else is thinking why is the town of Brookville … If I had a business going under, would you buy it from me?”
Curtis Ward: “It’s according to if that business would benefit the town.”
There were many moans
Curtis Ward: “Thank you anyone else?”
Bernie Rosenberger, retired owner of Rosenberger’s Main Meat Market and a Brookville resident, who spoke earlier in the meeting: “I understand you made the statement, and I didn’t actually hear it clearly about LLC when it began. They were under the impression they would be bought out by the town.”
Curtis Ward: “Yes.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “You made that. How did you know?”
Curtis Ward: “Because when we, recall the timeline of events, when Dave White brought that property up for auction, he hosted a series of meetings and one of those was a joint meeting with the (Franklin County) commissioners and town council and county council. At that point in time, the town council stood up prior to the LLC ever being mentioned or thought of and said they wanted to buy the golf course. That was the end of October of 2018. Since that time, the town has worked with the intention of buying the golf course. The LLC was formed mid-, I’d say mid-2019? To help bridge the portion of time that it took to buy the golf course and transfer it over to town. Their entire point of existence was not to run a golf course or not to permanently have the golf course but to hold it for two to three years and transfer it over to the town. During that time, they were going to make a viable golf course, improve play count, improve memberships and improve the course. And that’s what they’ve done.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “My point is, you made those intentions at that time without reference to the citizens of Brookville?”
Curtis Ward: “That was all done in public meetings. We had a series of open conversations over the past three years. It has not been private discussion or private purchase. It’s been very open since 2018.”
This caused rumblings from the crowd
Bernie Rosenberger: “I think it’s been very quiet. I mean I don’t know — we are transitioning to a technology age where a lot of people have transitioned already, but a lot of us haven’t. I still am used to a local newspaper. And I don’t remember all of that.”
Curtis Ward: “It has been open. We ordered appraisals back in 2018 on this golf course. We negotiated the deal in 2018.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “How was it recorded?”
Curtis Ward: “It was recorded in our minutes. It was recorded in the Observer. It was recorded in Whitewater Publications. It was recorded everywhere.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “I understand there has been a feasibility study going on.”
Curtis Ward: “There is a feasibility study going on.”
This caused murmuring and laughter
EDITORIAL COMMENT: it has been proven over and over there is no feasibility study ongoing and there has never been a feasibility study started by town council even though Curtis has made the assertion at almost every public meeting for a year.
Bernie Rosenberger: “So has any of that been revealed?”
Curtis Ward: “It has not.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “So, is the feasibility about the golf course, about annexation?”
Curtis Ward: “It’s about annexation. It’s not about the golf course.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “So, there’s been no feasibility (study) of the golf course?”
Curtis Ward: “We have not done a feasibility of the golf course because we’ve been able to view the financials.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “So, those financials will be made public?”
Curtis Ward: “No. It won’t be made public.
Bernie Rosenberger: “Why? It involves us. We’re spending a million dollars.”
Bernie turned to the crowd with a sweep of his hand and repeated himself.
Bernie Rosenberger: “We’re spending a million dollars.”
Curtis Ward: “It is part of the non-disclosure to the golf course (with LLC).”
Voices from the crowd “Really.” “That’s so funny”
Bernie Rosenberger: “That makes no sense to me. You’re representing the town, right? You all are? So, do you listen to your people?”
Many different people in the crowd said the word “no” over and over. One person said “One term.” No one from council answered Bernie, but Curtis said “two” in response to the one term comment Cutis ran unopposed in the last election.
Bernie Rosenberger: “Has anything been resolved about the petition that was going around and was signed, I signed it?”
Curtis Ward: “I’m not sure of what you are referring to?”
Bernie Rosenberger: “You’re not aware of it?”
Curtis Ward: “No.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “You’re not aware of a petition going around against the golf course?”
Curtis Ward: “No.”
Eric Johnson, council member: “Tell us what it is.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “I’m sorry. I don’t know you.”
Eric Johnson: “You’ve made the buildup, now you want to tell us what it is.”
Someone from the audience said “it was a couple of years ago, he probably doesn’t remember.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “I know it is a petition I signed. I know a number of people have signed it. I would hope you are representing the majority of people not just the LLC. I know they have a lot of money between them.”
Curtis Ward: “We were committed to this prior to the LLC. So, when everybody says you are doing this for the LLC, it’s the opposite way around. Look…”
Bernie Rosenberger: “You weren’t committed to the LLC?”
Curtis Ward: “We were committed from the original purchase, from the original seller. We had committed from that point in time we wanted to buy the golf course back in 2018…”
Bernie Rosenberger: “You wanted to (buy the golf course)?”
Curtis Ward: “We negotiated the deal simultaneously with the LLC…”
Bernie Rosenberger: “You said the LLC wasn’t involved.”
Curtis Ward: “We negotiated with the owner, they (LLC) bridged … we agreed to buy it for $1 million.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “And you talked to the LLC before that?”
Curtis Ward: “We talked to Dave White, and we talked to Sparky Renaker that was our primary point of contact. It evolved. We made no negotiation. We were driving the negotiations. They wanted $1.1 million, and the LLC stepped up to bridge that gap. We were still committed to buy it for $1 million at that time.”
Bernie Rosenberger: “You were committed then to buy it?”
Curtis Ward: “What?”
Bernie Rosenberger: “You said you were committed. So, you were committed under law to purchase it?”
Curtis Ward: “Our contract, if we approve it, would start tonight, but we have negotiated that deal previously. All this has been negotiated out for three years now.”
Peggy Race, Brookville resident and retired Franklin County Senior Citizen Administrator: “Am I misunderstanding? Who was committed to it? Are you saying you were committed to this as a board?”
Curtis Ward: “Yes. The previous board.”
Peggy Race: “Where is it said the previous board members signed a contract with the LLC that committed them. The LLC purchased the golf course.”
Curtis Ward: “If you look at the minutes from 2018…”
Peggy Race: “We are a town; Brookville is a town, not a corporation, not a huge city. We’re not a conglomerate. Not a whatever. Brookville has always taken care of Brookville. If you are a public entity, you are supposed to take care of police, fire, the safety of the people there, make sure they have safe drinking water. Those are the priorities. They have safe streets. They have sewage. To go out and buy a business to help you make money as a town to run a big business. We’re not in the business of running a business. You get our tax dollars to provide safety: for our water, our sewer, our kids, public schools, fire and police. We’re not in the business of making money from a business. And where do you get off thinking that is what a town should do? Name me a town, a town our size that is going off and buying a golf course. We can barely take care of our parks. We couldn’t even renovate the pool. We had to go out and get donations to renovate the pool. Now where are you going to be coming up with the money to buy a golf course? And who is going to take care of that? The town board? The town board is supposed to take care of the town’s citizens. Do you see people rallying around you here to try to take care of it? You can’t even take care of the pool without donations. Do not buy a golf course.”
Loud applause
John Race: “If we wanted to buy a golf course, we’d buy a golf course. But the town does not want to buy a golf course, and you’re supposed to be representing us.”
Loud applause
Peggy Race: “You are doing the exact opposite. Why Curtis, why? You’re the only person driving this. You are behind it.
“For the money” several people said at once.
EDITORIAL COMMENT: as it was revealed in Part I, Curtis Ward purchased nine lots adjacent to the golf course on July 7, and told everyone the golf course had to be purchased right now at the Aug. 10 meeting, barely one month after purchasing those properties. But he told Ken Murphy earlier in the meeting, in Part I, there was no emergency to buy the golf course.
Peggy Race: “With all the frustrations and all the people against this, why do you continue to just railroad this? With the consensus from a town board that signed an agreement with the LLC and it’s not in the minutes.”
Curtis Ward: “I didn’t say we signed an agreement with the LLC.”
Peggy Race: “That is what you said.”
Curtis Ward: “I said we reached an agreement with Sparky Renaker…”
Peggy Race: “How could you reach an agreement without voting on it?”
Curtis Ward: “We did vote on it.”
Peggy Race: “It’s not in the minutes.”
Ward responds with something I cannot hear.
This ends Part II
https://www.remax.com/real-estate-agents/dennis-kolb-brookville-in/100081480
Let’s have a public vote on buying the golf course let the majority rule
Why would the BTC do that?!! That would be the right way to do it and not their wa
Thanks for doing this John! People need to hear that they’re ignoring the will of the people.