By John Estridge
EDITOR’S NOTE AND EDITORIAL COMMENT: This is the eighth of a multi-part transcription of the August 24 Brookville Town Council meeting’s pertinent parts relating to the Golf Course Purchase, Zimmer Building Purchase and Frisbee Golf Course. I wanted to break this down into parts because it will be a very long piece, if I can even finish it. It takes a long, long time to go over and over a recording to do a transcription, especially with how fast and slurred Curtis Ward, BTC president, is when he begins talking about something that apparently excites him.
Part VII was Curtis’ reading of the Purchase Agreement, discussion concerning many aspects, specifically why no one from town council wanted to look at financial documents pertaining to the LLC and the golf course; What happens if the town loses a bunch of money on the golf course and cannot make it a go; and we were told the LLC had $400,000 worth of income in the past year (ahem, ahem). And then the unanimous vote for the town’s taxpayers to purchase the golf course for $1 million.
Part VIII is the Frisbee Golf Course.
I hate to admit I still have naivety, but I do. When the BTC started discussion on the Frisbee Golf Course at the Aug. 24 meeting after the purchase of the Pig in a Poke Golf Course, I thought council would compromise on this point and let Mary Alice Helms and the many, many people she represents who love Brookville Town Park the way it is and want to keep it that way, have it their way. But, I was wrong. I had underestimated the callousness and conceit of four of the five members. They could not even give town residents a crumb. They must have everything Curtis’ way, from start to finish. Brookville is never going to be the same after Curtis Ward’s four-year term as a council president. And the changes are not for the better for most of us. They might be good for Curtis, his rich buddies and the few very rich in the area – I think we all know who they are — who are pulling Curtis’ strings.
Future town councils are not going to be able to raise the money to pay for even the ongoing maintenance of the current infrastructure let alone pay to adequately react to large problems such as Progress Street’s landslide and the aging sewer treatment plant.
But back to Frisbee Golf:
Mary Alice did research on Frisbee Golf courses. Council did no research on Pig in a Poke Golf Course, on the Frisbee Golf Course or on the Zimmer Building Purchase. But Mary Alice did research, and she presented it to the five council members, with only one listening.
The other four and the fifth council member on most issues, don’t need no stinkin’ research. They know what is best for the residents of Brookville. We do not. None of us know anything compared to those five.
Read Mary Alice’s words and read their words, they are oh so telling.
Curtis Ward: “Next on the agenda is the Frisbee Golf Course. OK, uh, Chuck (Campbell, fellow town council member attending through remote means) you’ll need to come by the office (town hall) tomorrow (August 25) to sign the (something related to the purchase agreement) for Gina (Gillman, clerk/treasurer). So, Frisbee Golf Course is … is Mary Alice here? (She had been sitting near the front next to the podium for the entire meeting.) Oh. Go ahead I have one more thing about the golf course, but you can go ahead.”
Mary Alice Helms: “Good evening. Thank you for allowing me to speak to you this evening. My name is Mary Alice Helms, and I am here to explain why I think that the town park is not a suitable venue for a Frisbee Golf Course. I would like council to consider other possible locations for such a venture.
“I had never heard of Frisbee golf before reading about the plans of town council. Thinking that it might be wise to educate myself about the game before jumping to the conclusion that the town park would not be a good choice for such a project, I did a massive amount of reading on the subject. While doing the research, I found that the names ‘Frisbee golf’ and ‘disc golf’ are used interchangeably, although different types of discs are used in each of the games.
“I must admit that the game sounds like a lot of fun for those who enjoy active participation in sports. My objections are not to the sport itself, but in the choice of the location. I believe that the town park, it is unsuitable as a site for a Frisbee Golf Course for the following reasons. I have the sources here so you can check them yourselves
- “According to every website I visited, safety should be the first consideration in the choice of a location. For that reason, I founda course should never be located near walkways. According to the website Golf Warrior, one of the major safety risks is the presence of the non-disc golfer.”
Mary Alice passed out a hard copy of her research findings after she gave her speech. Her source is https://discgofwarrior.com/ultimatefrisbeesafety
- “The park has too small an area of unrestricted sight to accommodate even a small course. A full 18-hole course requires a dedicated space of 20-25 acres; a small ‘picnic-style’ course of nine holes could be squeezed into five to six acres.”
Source: https://www.discfolfpark.com
- “According to the local newspaper, current plans for building a Frisbee site in the town park would require the destruction of ‘only’ two trees and the removal of four bluebird houses. The park superintendent and his crew can make the best decisions about any trees which should be removed. The bluebird houses were built and are maintained by volunteers. They are a tribute to the success of local efforts to restore the western bluebird to this area.”
Source: NCC why bluebirds? Nature conservancy https://www.audubon.org/news/whydobirdsmatter
- “Number four people are drawn to the park because of its tranquility a place where they can enjoy the unspoiled beauty of nature so close to the center of town.
- “And lastly, Frisbee parks are best placed in areas of underutilized or undesirable land. I would say the town park is neither underutilized or undesirable.”
Source: Frisbee golf game https://discgolfwarrior.com
“I, like so many others in our community, am passionate about this park. I believe that it is a gem and one of Brookville’s greatest assets. I have heard people from other areas comment on how fortunate we are to have this natural hideaway. For these reasons and because I would like to see this park remain a place of sanctuary, I respectfully ask that the town council consider other locations for the proposed Frisbee Golf Course.
“Thank you for listening to my concerns and those of many others who enjoy our park.”
Applause
Curtis Ward: “Thank you. Any questions for Mary Alice?”
Cathy Pelsor (council member): “I want to say Mary Alice, I agree with you on that. And I will be voting no on the Frisbee Golf Course.”
Applause
As Mary Alice handed out the hard copies of her speech and her sources, Curtis and the rest put it aside without looking at it, and went on with their plan to alter our town park to Curtis’ plan for us.
Curtis Ward: “Update for the … for the municipal golf course, Frisbee Golf Course, the course has been laid out. The property has been flagged. Um, everyone should have had the chance to review that course that we chose. The purchase and installation fees would be $7,050. The installation tees are movable. So, if we find a hole location is not suitable, we have options in the future. Um, I would suggest that we refrain from doing any permanent paths until we have a chance to modify the course.”
EDITORIAL COMMENT: Note Curtis words are “chance to modify the course” and not to abandon the idea. It is his idea so it is a good idea even though the majority of the people who have spoken out about the idea are vehemently against it. In Curtis’ egomaniac mind: Who cares what the majority thinks even on this?
Curtis Ward: The next comment is unintelligible on both my recording and the video.
Curtis Ward: “Is there any discussion?”
Gary Dorrel: “Are you allowing any public comments yet?
Curtis Ward: “We’re doing board discussion right now.”
Gary Dorrel: “All right.”
Curtis Ward: “Any board discussion?”
Eric Johnson, council member: “I think this is a good compromise.”
EDITORIAL COMMENT: As in most things with this council, Johnson’s definitions are different than mine: compromise means give and take. With this council and Frisbee Golf Course, like everything else they have been considering since Curtis took over the town and is ruling all of its citizens, there is no compromise. They will just modify the course if someone gets hurt, maybe, and then again, maybe not.
Eric Johnson: “They’re not permanent. It is a much lower price (permanent installation is more than $18,000).”
Curtis Ward: “Yes.”
Brooke Leffingwell, council member: Brooke made a comment, but like always with her, she moved away from the mic when making the comment. The crowd all said at once they could not hear her so she repeated it.
Brooke Leffingwell: “I said I (something inaudible) and they were very discreet. And I, they’re very minimal and in size. So I was happy with the layout.”
Curtis Ward: “Any public comment?”
Someone from crowd: “Did you say (inaudible)”
Curtis Ward: “They are.”
Bridget Hayes: “Is it 18 holes still?”
Curtis Ward: “Yes.”
Bridget Hayes: “And $7,050?”
Curtis Ward: “Yes.”
Bridget Hayes: “Thanks.”
Curtis Ward: “The cost concrete pads add up to the $18,000. So, by making them temporary, we can do it for much less. If not,” (inaudible).
Gary Dorrel: “My name is Gary Dorrel. Have any of you, the board members been over to the Hueston Woods and seen theirs.”
Curtis Ward: “I have.”
Gary Dorrel: “How many acres of golf there?”
Curtis Ward: “I’m not sure. I’ve played the course.”
Gary Dorrel: “Is it a lot bigger than here?”
Curtis Ward: “It probably is. The holes are much longer than what’s proposed here.”
Gary Dorrel: “You’ve played Frisbee golf?”
Curtis Ward: “I have.”
Gary Dorrel: “So, you’ve noticed at golf courses across the nation have Frisbee golf and regular golf on their course? Now, we have a golf course? Right? In the process?
Curtis Ward: “Yes.”
Gary Dorrel: “Why can’t you take your Frisbee golf up to the golf course and put it there and take it out of your town park, which I think is a very good place for the Town of Brookville? Will the golf course pay for itself? I think no. Take it (Frisbee Golf Course) up to the course at Brook Hill and charge a couple of dollars to play. That’s all I got to say.”
Curtis Ward: “I appreciate it.”
Gary Dorrel: “Oh, I will say one thing back in the 60s, our grandfather had some ground off 101. He said Brookville only had one way to grow and that’s up 101 as that’s the quickest way out of town. But I think with the golf course where it’s at and the subdivisions up there, you annex it and still have to go up 101 or Reservoir Hill. That’s all I got to say.”
Curtis Ward: “Anyone else regarding Frisbee Golf Course? Any other board discussion?”
Eric Johnson: “I think having a Frisbee Golf Course (inaudible). It’s lightly invasive and a great outdoor exercise activity. It gives the kids something to do (inaudible).”
Brooke Leffingwell: (speaks so softly it is impossible to pick up other than the word “I like (something) option”)
Cathy Pelsor: “I think everyone knows where I stand so I’m not going to say anymore.”
Curtis Ward: “Is there a motion?”
Eric Johnson: “I’ll make the motion for a Frisbee Golf Course with the temporary baskets.”
Curtis Ward: “Eric made a motion to approve the quote of $7,050 Frisbee Golf Course with the temporary baskets. Uh, that’s for Frisbee golf at the location we presented. Do I have a second?”
Brooke Leffingwell: “I’ll second.”
The vote was 3-1 with Cathy against. Chuck was no longer part of the meeting.
Bridget Hayes: “I have a question. Is there still going to be advertisements on the baskets?”
Curtis Ward: “We had talked about having sponsors for the holes named on the baskets.”
Cathy Pelsor did not know about the advertisements and said no. Bridget informed Cathy the rest of the town council members decided to have advertisements on the baskets at the town park while Cathy was away.
Curtis Ward: “The advertisements would be right at the top.”
Bridget Hayes: “So, yes?”
Curtis Ward: “If Brooke and Eric still believe that is a good idea.”
Eric Johnson: “So, I guess I’m kind of torn on that. It’ll be at the top of the basket?”
Curtis Ward: “Yes.” (Curtis said more but it was inaudible saying something about like at a regular golf course)
Eric and Brooke made comments but they were also inaudible.
Curtis Ward: “Is that a motion?”
Brooke Leffingwell: “I would make a motion to hold off on advertising and…”
People once again said they could not hear anything Brooke was saying.
Brooke Leffingwell: “I would make a motion to go ahead with not having advertisements up front and being (she becomes inaudible again as she lowered her voice and talked faster, like Curtis often does)
Curtis Ward: “Brooke made a motion to hold off on advertising at this time. Is there a second?”
Eric Johnson: “I’ll second it.”
Curtis called for a vote and Cathy said she is against advertising. One should note they said to “hold off on advertising for now.” We may have neon signs at the park if Curtis wants them as he was the one with the original idea of advertising. The person behind this who has never been to a meeting did not think of the advertising.
This ends Part VIII
